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Bill Pound's avatar

Debbie, I generally enjoy your posts, along with those by Joshua Stylman. But this post leaves me dangling. Not so much your questions as Hopkins answers.

Hopkins speaks as if his Globocap system is alive, a living organism. I do not find this useful. He argues that old values have given way to a single "exchange value". I don't agree but Solzhenitsyn seems to be saying much the same in a recent March 2025 The New Criterion article titled, "The depletion of culture". He longs for individuals who care more about culture than money and for others to support them. Hopkins repeats "I'm not an enemy of capitalism" and I say yes you are. He says we are a single ideology world. I disagree.

He notes Covid led to an instant loss of rights. Yes, and there has been much consternation over these actions as you, Taibbi and others have noted, primarily with respect to free speech. "Our minds are trained to look for a central controller, but Globocap doesn't have one". My experience is in manufacturing and quality assurance where the search for root cause(s) is critical to problem solving. Harris ostensibly was assigned to search for the "root cause" of illegal migration. She doesn't know anything about the subject, and like Biden actively promoted the violation of our laws. Hopkins saying Globocap doesn't have a central control mechanism is bunk. You and others have identified many government officials in many countries who brought about central control during Covid. Maybe having many players who groupthink alike is equivalent to saying there is no central control (like our healthcare industry today). Reminds me of Buckley saying, "I would rather be governed by the first 2,000 names in the Boston telephone directory than by the 2,000 members of the faculty of Harvard University". Or if Reagan had died after being shot, I believed someone among 1000 others would rise to take his place. Maybe it takes someone like Trump to untie Hopkins Gordian knot.

Hopkins says, "I am trying to understand this new system which is moving to totalitarianism". He is getting nowhere, and I doubt if he is up to the task. "Because it is global, all it has to do is wipe out internal resistance." I guess if I had to agree with anything Hopkins says, it would be this comment. And to wipe out internal resistance it will be necessary to wipe out free speech, free assembly, democracy, gun rights and host of other values. That will take much longer than Hopkins or I will be alive, and with God's grace, hopefully never.

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Carl Eric Scott's avatar

Share your reservations. Hopkins just doesn't THINK about modern democracy--everything is swallowed into his understanding of the "system." The kind of political science that looks at the real differences particular individuals do make in leadership--take a humanistically-investigated book like Dan Mahoney's "Statesman as Thinker" (or take Solzhenitsyn on Stolypin in "August 1914") or a more studies-utilizing book like Joseph Bessette's "The Mild Voice of Reason," is totally alien to Hopkins. By his lights, unless future geniuses adopt some yet-to-be-articulated Hopkins institutional way of "Chinese-walling" our reps and exec leaders from big money, it's all just hopeless for him, and there's no point in reading that kind of history and political science.

More simplistically, since nothing in Hopkins could lead you to believe in democracy modern or ancient, or in natural right modern or ancient, why would you fight the present powers and depredations? Why fight in the name of democracy and rights? So Germany takes away his rights, so what? Nothing here is real, or preserve-able, right? He and his stand is just some kind of poison-seed for the long-term. But it's all system-ic dynamics anyhow, so again, why should anyone care about his stand? He and his ideas won't in fact be the poison that kills the system--his own ideas say they cannot..

But we do care, and we should. Hopkins is better, in deed, and in some of his words, than his theorizing can account for.

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J. David Bartram's avatar

Debbie, brilliant interview! I appreciate your questions about a “cabal” vs. a system. This is a difficult concept to accept.

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Biff Thuringer's avatar

This is a fucking fascinating discussion. I’ve been following CJ for a while now, having originally been turned on to his genius by his supporter and my acquaintance Matt Taibbi. I have to confess I remain firmly on the fence as to whether to accept CJ’s contention that the self-generating, unconscious, world-dominating system of “GlobalCap” is sufficient to blindly and unintentionally push humanity into the totalitarian cul-de-sac in which we’ve found ourselves, without the help of some sort of shadowy multigenerational “cabal” of committed feudalists whom “conspiracy theorists” keep insisting are driving the bus. Despite being as agnostic about this intellectual schism as I am about religion, spirituality and everything else, I’m going to keep writing fiction (and even some opinion pieces) AS IF I were a stone conspiracy theorist, because, frankly, it’s a lot more fun. Also, living in the aptly named Empire State for my entire life and noticing/investigating and getting threatened by the mobsters, lawyers and politicians who actually are involved in dastardly conspiracies, it’s not difficult to extrapolate that this shit might be happening all the way up a treacherous global ladder to some ancient, gold-plated lair deep inside a Swiss mountain.

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JC's avatar
May 20Edited

Yes, but I believe that CJ is discussing the forces *behind* the cabals. Why the cabals do what they do - to protect the system, which - if you add AI into it - is certainly it's own animal. Not conscious perhaps, but with a "mission." I found the discussion eye-opening.

He didn't deny that the cabals exist, he merely said, the personalities who we see (Schwhab, Musk, whoever) fill a role that feeds the system.

I hold hope that the cabals will turn on each other, as we get closer to a dry waterhole. But many pawns will be sacrificed in that scenario.

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V. N. Alexander's avatar

What C. J. is describing as GlobalCap, the nameless faceless System that is sucking the life out of society, is similar to the theory described in Orwell's book within Nineteen Eighty-four called The Theory and Practice of Oligarchic Collectivism. The System has no value other than to sustain itself. It doesn't matter who the actors are. Orwell didn't offer a way to outsmart that System. But as C.J. and you discussed, the seeds for its destruction are there. And ready.

At this moment, the System is attempting to switch to fully automatic mode, wherein no human actors will be needed to brandish the carrot and the stick. Instead, with Palantir's surveillance system, coupled with Starlink and whatever else they've got going with Stargate and whathaveyou, algorithms will begin to enforce the system's self-reinforcing behaviors. It probably won't succeed in making this switch. Any complex system is very vulnerable at the moment that it tries to switch to a different regime. And this switch will require taking the organic part out of it, which got the people in the System to go along. Once it tries to rule by algorithmic force, I think it will seize up like a wonky machine that can't deal with the complexity that is humanity.

The most useful thing we can do at this time is exercise our values. .... And, let me add, get C. J.'s novel Zone 23. Reading a literary version of political theories helps in ways that non-fiction and argument can't. Supporting literature is a value that this society -- even our resistance movements -- have all but lost.

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voza0db's avatar

"We Can Be the Seeds"

Have you learned nothing from OPERATION COVIDIUS?

https://voza0db.substack.com/p/morons-just-dont-get-it

We don't even qualify as manure...

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V. N. Alexander's avatar

Maybe we do qualify as manure, which new life needs to grow.

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voza0db's avatar

Possibly with some good fortune a rare type of bacteria might be able to digest us.

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V. N. Alexander's avatar

In the new era of Compostmodernism.

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Marie Long's avatar

why is the "simulation of democracy" necessary to 21 century global cap?

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V. N. Alexander's avatar

To get people to participate in their demise.

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Marie Long's avatar

yep!

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Paving the Way's avatar

I disagree about Musk. Taking over Twitter galvanized the Dissident Right again and is exposing Global Cap in all of its monstrous blobbiness. Musk is a closet White Nationalist. Write it down.

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Paving the Way's avatar

CJ is mirroring the language about Global Capitalism of the ALT Right Nationalists of 2017-18 before they were neutralized. This is not a criticism. It is an observation and a recommendation. Our revolutionary footprint is larger than one might think.

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Mark G. Meyers's avatar

I think you will find much overlap on capitalism with George Monbiot (I'll link it), who puts it as commoditization of labor, resource, and I would say acting like a virus, and where it consumes what's around it, and then crashes, yielding a perpetual boom-or-bust cycle.

part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z5yRqv4RzA

part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ4_y3rkX5Q

A person could go to David Graeber, who was an anthropologist and political activist, who cited simple societies which then transitioned into what we more-so recognize today, in a move from simple "communism", as he called it, to individual wealth and competition, where the ecology would turn to crap, and this would be strikingly different. Earlier societies were cooperative, and reputation was the most important thing (not wealth). Then, when inequality arose, for a variety of reasons it would break out into a two-tiered society (the latter).

I would ask you to consider democracy as not coming from capitalism, since it is now studied in animal populations. There was a lot of it in the late 18th Century - there were town halls across the country, and they produced a national legislature, and then they made a country. We should not pretend that we're like this today. I think we should recognize that we're not democratic.

What I have come up with is the use of a democratic method for solving political problems. I think Polybius might have predicted that when falling after an oligarchic collapse, either democracy or mob rule might come next. How about democracy among us? I have two ways of introducing this approach (below). Bear in mind that this could be attempted at city, state, or national levels. I think a city-wide case study might be interesting.

1) Current state of affairs (challenged)

https://markgmeyers.substack.com/p/an-unprecedented-state-of-affairs

2) The proposition (problem, solution, challenges, and how to overcome):

https://markgmeyers.substack.com/p/now-and-for-the-future

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Marie Long's avatar

Debbie, I don't think C.J. fully answered your question re covid, that being what if enough people had fought back. I can speculate that the answer lies somewhere in the fact that they did not and never will... Along the same lines, one of the greatest advertising ploys in my lifetime has been the acceptance of people being characteried as consumers rather than citizens.

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Anthony Freda's avatar

Two of my favorite people!

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Susan Liang's avatar

All wrong on every point. Start with Cecil Rhodes, et al. who with the British Empire, wished to extend that empire to rule the planet. That empire's economic system was and still is one of plunder/theft.

The British Empire plundered (and still plunders) other nations. It's called colonialism or more harshly, de facto slavery (theft, rape, mass murder). See de facto living standards around the world.

The empire around 1890 realized colonies were not going to allow themselves to be enslaved. So the empire had to do something "new".

It had to hide itself and use another country's armies to secretly colonize. Since it had always planned to re-colonize America since the American Revolution, it decided to use America's armies.

From 1900 (to 2024), It captured the Department of State and the Presidency. (And also the Congress.).

And it "de-educated" the American people about what it had done, was doing, and will do to the planet ("globalism"). It pretended through its think tanks that all problems in the world were global -- in order to convince Americans in particular they no longer needed their nation state/national sovereignty (in order tonconvince them they no longer needed the U.S.Constitution).

What they "needed" was the covert extant empire (world rule/League of Nations/U.N./World Economic Forum/World Health Organization). All these entities are arms/creations of the British Empire.

The British Empire ever since the American Revolution, has always wanted to dismantle the "one thing" that stood in the way of world slavery/colonialism -- the idea of the inalienable rights of the individual in the Declaration of Independence and in the U.S.Constitution.

The reason the empire had its agents assassinate Lincoln, FDR and JFK -- and the reason you don't know this history -- is because these presidents were going to spread the idea of freedom to other nation states i.e.no more colonies or countries to plunder....

The assassins of JFK were paid via Britain's colony Canada. You only think Canada is a country because the British Empire "calls it" a "commonwealth."....

II

What are "neo-cons"? They are anglophile American agents of the State Department who having "captured" (up until Trump) the American army, are making war on the nations of the world --to plunder them. See General Wesley Clark on the 20th century plan for 7 wars in the Middle East. Also see the British geopolitical expert Mackinder on his 1906 plan to colonize Russia for its vast resources (the Empire is still trying to implement via Ukraine).

The rest of this world history you (the universal "you") don't know because as an American you've been de-educated for the entire 20th century, you can find under authors Cynthia Chung "The Empire on Which the Black Sun Never Set", Matthew Ehret, "The Clash of the Two Americas", and Rising Tide Foundation.

By the time you catch up learning the true history the empire "does not want you to know," [in fact you will fight NOT to know] you will be enslaved biologically through nanoscale controls and social controls ("citizens controlling each other") in the name of "anti-totalitarianism" defined by the Empire. "Of course" they're not the totalitarians. Mark Carney is for the "freedom" of Canadians.

Sorry but "Star Wars" and Darth Vader's Death Star is not designed to help you grasp true history. Cecil Rhodes, Rhodes Scholars, et al.

Rhodes and Queen Victoria waged war against the Dutch Boer people in South Africa (and the local black tribes*) in order to steal their diamond and gold mines. These mines fund the empire's international spy system to this day. Yep, "007." (*the "pass system" for these blacks [slaves] in Rhodes' day -- is the same pass system they used on you during Covid, to get you used to obeying -- like good future slaves).

Rhodes et al put the Boers in the first concentration camps (Hitler copied these camps). 20,000 Boer children died in these camps.

Another project (still) funding the empire were the Opium Wars against China. China didn't want opium, lost the war and "had to" import opium and had to give Hong Kong to the British. (Oh, that Hong Kong? Yes, that Hong Kong.).

John Kerry is a descendant of one of the American families that forcibly sold Opium to China. Oh, that John Kerry? The same.

Good luck. The learning curve is steep. The slavemasters have millennia of experience making slaves out of human beings.

And you are somewhere in the quicksand of faux Star Wars* metaphors -- of ugly totalitarians vs pretty princesses and handsome swordsmen.

And while you busy yourself with the caste system subtly presented to you as acceptable fantasy reality, did you know the U.S.Constitution forbids titles of nobility because Americans are intended to live as equals in inalienable rights, as citizens -- and not as "subjects" of the empire?

_____

* Or Dune trilogy; Lord of the Rings trilogy.

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Lloyd Miller's avatar

Absurd LEFTIST nonsense! They the ruling class / conspiracy is CONSCIOUSLY going back to pre-capitalist but ultra high tech Feudalism in which CONSUMERISM is eliminated. Or, hopefully, they are trying to do that, but will not succeed. Central Bank Digital Currency is the end of consumerism. Absurd LEFTIST ideas about "consumerism" make the LEFT allies of the World Economic Forum. Central Bank Bund is an explicit conspiracy. Denying this conspiracy is TREASON to the people and their values. Even the well intentioned non-Stalinist LEFT is near useless!

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JC's avatar

we are the product

we are the enemy

we are the commodity

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Michael C Watchorn's avatar

By describing the source of our problem as Capitalism will be great fodder for the greens and the far left who hand wring and find victims everywhere, problem is they want to spend other people's money to fix the problem. I think it's more accurate to describe the monster as Corporate Capitalism.

Because I'm a free enterprise guy, I understand the need to make a profit in business I could be described as a capitalist?...( actually I'm an utter failure in that regard)

My late uncle who took on the big fertilizer companies in NZ by offering farmers a more natural balanced approach to soil/animal health with minimal application of spreadable fertilizers, was threatened with absolute financial ruin and potential jail time, for doing the right thing for the land, animal and farmer. Others have tried and failed in his wake and did go to jail and have had property seized. I concur with CJ, we are not playing the game if we dont consume, especially those " beautiful vaccines"..No-one can be permitted to stand in the way of big Corporate profits. And the governments will protect Corporate profit over human rights. Because I suspect they all have skin in the game.

My Uncle said to me not long before he passed " you can put all the problems in the world down to two words. Vested interest"

Great discussion and thank you CJ, you've paid a high price. I'll buy your book.

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Gecko1's avatar

"There is no conspiring elite behind global capitalism. Anyone who works hard can become a trillionaire!"

Right you are, Mr Rockerothschildefeller.

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Rob (c137)'s avatar

We have turn key dystopia which can easily be flipped to utopia.

I'm not talking Brave New World...

So many of our problems in economics, politics, health, science, and tech have already been solved but Big Brother will rather promote and push the more inefficient and costly solutions.

As soon as these simple solutions come up, things will change to what is more balanced.

It's the predator class that refuses to let go and it's clear that they're desperate to stop humanity from being united against them.

Anytime one realizes some bullshit here or there, there's less room for the sociopaths to feed on.

https://robc137.substack.com/p/allergic-to-bullshit

And this is why we believed in bullshit

https://robc137.substack.com/p/alphabet-vs-the-goddess

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